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what do you think is going to happen to just\h
Humanity I mean where do you think we go with\h\h

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that information hopefully we get the information\h
to use that to our benefit and we can do things\h\h

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like perpetual motion or perpetual energy\h
but we can solve a lot of our problems and\h\h

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maybe we can even learn from them how not\h
to have conflicts with each other as well

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welcome to merge I'm Ryan Graves today we're\h
joined by Chris Van Voorhees who at the age of\h\h

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14 started flying with the Civil Air Patrol today\h
he's a domestic and international commercial pilot\h\h

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with over 30 000 flight hours Chris has come\h
forward to share his multiple UAP encounters\h\h

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throughout his long career including the ones\h
that continue today and now Chris Van Voorhees\h\h

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thank you for joining me um I'm super excited to\h
talk to you you've been a commercial pilot and\h\h

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I mean really just a pilot practically your whole\h
life I think you I mean you started flying before\h\h

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most people even were driving a car is that\h
fair to say uh actually I was flying before I\h\h

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could drive a car yes incredible so why don't you\h
tell us about that so you started off just briefly\h\h

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maybe you can tell us a little bit about your your\h
journey as a pilot and up to where you are now\h\h

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sure I started out actually when I was about 14\h
years old I started flying gliders in Civil Air\h\h

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Patrol okay and started flying fixed-wing aircraft\h
also in Civil Air Patrol and it transitioned\h\h

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through high school and I got my private Palace\h
license right when I turned 17 through a program\h\h

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in my high school and it was just kind of all\h
after that a big snowball I did whatever I\h\h

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could like most aviators to Big Barrel and steel\h
flight time and built it up polishing airplanes\h\h

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and working on flight lines or whatever I could\h
do and it kind of accumulated after a while to the\h\h

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point where I got hired by an individual out in\h
Rialto Airport to do Charter work for them and to\h\h

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do some types of movie oriented things his name\h
was art show like flying for oh art show really\h\h

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cool and so flying for movie shots and things of\h
that nature and things of that type yes okay man\h\h

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14. so I mean you you knew basically is as you're\h
growing up that you want to fly or did you just\h\h

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find it when you were 13 well it's kind of a long\h
story actually but when I was young I used to sit\h\h

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out in my backyard and watch airplanes at this\h
airport close to us called bracket airport and\h\h

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no one else in my family was really in aviation\h
at all my grandfather had a short stint where he\h\h

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had a an old Newport from post-world war one that\h
he flew for three years until he crashed it and\h\h

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some grapes double out in Ontario but other than\h
that no one else in my family was interested in\h\h

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aviation and I used to sit on this wall in the\h
backyard and watch the airplanes down at bracket\h\h

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airport and one day they were having an air show\h
down there and my parents were gone I decided with\h\h

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my infinite wisdom to go down and see the air show\h
myself I had a babysitter at the time and I just\h\h

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took off and went and went out and it was about I\h
guess two and a half miles or so and walked down\h\h

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and and uh and was standing there watching the\h
airplanes and sooner or later I was approached\h\h

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by this gentleman wearing a uniform police uniform\h
and he says your name wouldn't happen to be Chris\h\h

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wouldn't and I was like yeah we have some yeah\h
we have some people that are very interested\h\h

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to know where you are and he took me and and\h
at that point and showed me he was uh the the\h\h

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operator of the Aero Bureau for Pomona Police\h
Department and he took me in the helicopter and\h\h

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he showed me all around and it was kind of like\h
gosh these people are really neat I really like\h\h

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this and it stuck and it just became like I\h
was saying uh earlier to you it became like a\h\h

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disease where it gets in your blood and it just\h
doesn't leave yeah awesome man yeah and you're\h\h

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out there you're scrubbing planes and trying\h
to get some time yeah uh what was really your\h\h

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kind of first break as far as your opportunity\h
to get behind the cockpit oh actually it was\h\h

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working for another movie production company\h
um that was based out of Beverly Hills and this\h\h

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individual he needed somebody to fly him up to\h
Lake Tahoe every weekend and so I would actually\h\h

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rent an airplane and fly him up to Lake Tahoe\h
and next thing you know his business has really\h\h

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started blossoming and we went from flying him\h
up to Lake Tahoe to him having to have his own\h\h

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airplane and then he ended up uh it was actually\h
needing a twin engine airplane I didn't have a\h\h

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twin engine rating so he got me the twin engine\h
rating and then I ended up flying him around and\h\h

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ended up by the time I was I think 20 years old\h
I was flying a Lear 25 even though I couldn't\h\h

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be qualified in it according to the FAA I had to\h
fly with a qualified individual but you know 20\h\h

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20 years old flying a leader 25 at that time was\h
quite a quite an accomplishment very cool do you\h\h

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have any thoughts of flying lying in the military\h
yes I did actually you know being in Civil Air\h\h

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Patrol I really did want to fly in the military\h
but as I got into uh academy prep and found out\h\h

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through the air force that my vision wasn't good\h
enough at the time to uh fly Fighters and it just\h\h

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kind of like just you know pulled the zoo out\h
of me yeah yep I know a lot of people I mean I\h\h

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was in that point myself I had to have laser eye\h
surgery myself just so I could fly so that was an\h\h

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option for you back then how about correct yeah\h
oh this was way back in ancient history in 1977.\h\h

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wow so you know he's basically been looking up\h
the at the sky since you've been a little kid\h\h

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and wanting to fly yeah I imagine there's been\h
a plethora of other aircraft that you've flown\h\h

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really since then where are you now as a Aviator\h
actually I'm uh an Airbus captain and uh I've been\h\h

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an instructor in the Airbus and Sim instructor and\h
ground instructor over the past well I actually\h\h

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was about uh pre-covered it's about uh what two\h
and a half years ago or so up to that point and so\h\h

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I've been flying as a captain with other entities\h
Japan Airlines or xiaowways is what it was called\h\h

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uh flew as a DC-10 Captain 747 captain and then\h
was transitioning to the 747-400 when the economic\h\h

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downturn of 2008 2009 hit man when I think of like\h
when people ask me questions about hey did you\h\h

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like always want to be a pilot and stuff I almost\h
guiltily say no you know like it's just like hey\h\h

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I figured it out when I was in college but that's\h
so cool that you just had that path in your life\h\h

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from a very early age that passion yeah I took I\h
took some alternate routes in the meantime when\h\h

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it was hard to get a flying job you know did voice\h
over work uh actually became a police officer in\h\h

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the city of El Monte for a little over a year\h
I wanted to fly for a law enforcement agency\h\h

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but at that point in time there were so many\h
Vietnam vets that were ahead of me it became\h\h

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discouraging you're still actively flying your\h
commercial pilot you're flying with passengers\h\h

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and I understand that you've had a couple at least\h
UAP or UFO experiences um there have been some\h\h

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cases over the over the United States and likely\h
elsewhere but that's where it's been reported\h\h

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now uh about lights in the sky over aircraft I\h
also understand you had an incredible experience\h\h

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um about a decade or so ago maybe two which one\h
would you like to talk about first um well let's\h\h

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start out with the earliest one which was in 2005.\h
okay and that's when I was flying for gelways or\h\h

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Japan Airlines and that was coming out of Fukuoka\h
into Honolulu and we were somewhere around just\h\h

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past the International Date Line and it was\h
really early in the morning when there's just\h\h

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a small little sliver of light blue on the horizon\h
flying with another captain and a flight engineer\h\h

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on the DC-10 so there's three cockpit crew members\h
and uh all of a sudden I saw some type of glint\h\h

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on the corner of my eye and looked up it was\h
probably at around 30 degrees in inclination\h\h

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and maybe about the 10 o'clock position from our\h
aircraft and three large discs and you know I hate\h\h

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to sound cliche for that but three large discs\h
in a triangular formation Ashley came into the\h\h

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atmosphere glinting off the Sun that was over\h
the horizon all right well so you were looking\h\h

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up at 30 degrees and it was about 10 degrees off\h
your nose you said did we how far did you say you\h\h

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thought it was were you able to estimate that at\h
all you know it was really difficult it was far\h\h

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enough to have the sun glinting off of it that was\h
still down over the horizon and uh it was uh these\h\h

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things were huge I mean there was no way to to not\h
say they were and for anyone not to be able to see\h\h

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it it was amazing to me because we had another\h
aircraft in front of us they saw it um we saw it\h\h

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and we were talking with them and it was such a\h
short period we only saw it for maybe 15 seconds\h\h

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um and we asked them are they going to\h
tell anybody and they're like no we're\h\h

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not going to say anything are you no\h
we're not going to say anything either\h\h

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um right who would the FAA controllers are saying\h
that or the other aircraft no this was out over\h\h

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the middle of the Pacific Ocean so there's another\h
air Japan flight and it was down in front of us\h\h

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down below us and um they they had seen it as\h
well okay so they did actually see it but they\h\h

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were saying like Hey we're not going to really\h
report to sell not all three of us in the cockpit\h\h

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saw it wow and uh I still am in contact with those\h
individuals today and we still reminisce about it\h\h

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really because it was something that still even\h
now it makes the hair stand up on the back of\h\h

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my neck I felt privileged to have seen it there\h
were people that asked me were you scared and I\h\h

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was like no I felt pretty privileged because it\h
was something that really changed my view on on\h\h

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UFOs or uaps up to that point it had always been\h
something that had been you know I I I'd seen some\h\h

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things that were odd but I'd never seen anything\h
like that I attributed my at that point in time I\h\h

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should say I I look at what I was compared to what\h
I am now in the way of mind or my mind being open\h\h

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um it opened my mind really and it allowed me to\h
all of a sudden say hey these things aren't in\h\h

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the world of fantasy these are something that's\h
real there's something that that uh you know is\h\h

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not in the Paranormal and it should be taken\h
as being real and looked at scientifically but\h\h

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unfortunately back in in 2005 that was even before\h
we had iPhones and I couldn't even take a video\h\h

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or anything like that of it because these things\h
when they came in and reoriented themselves in the\h\h

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atmosphere they accelerated I I wasn't even really\h
saying they were accelerating because they were at\h\h

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speed and gone over the horizon in just a matter\h
of uh yeah let's go back to that so they're in a\h\h

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triangle with essentially like the point facing in\h
the direction they're moving and it did it descend\h\h

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down or was it level when you were looking at it\h
do you remember that no they just kind of came in\h\h

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and stopped it wasn't they were they were coming\h
in at an angle and then stopped and then they\h\h

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kind of ascending from space right from somewhere\h
above okay and they stopped they kind of slightly\h\h

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reoriented like the whole the whole formation\h
to triangular formation reoriented and then gone\h\h

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yes disappear couldn't see it or you see it moving\h
no you could see it accelerate really but it was\h\h

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just at speed instantaneously it's almost not\h
even accelerating just kind of not moving and\h\h

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then moving right direction it just seems so\h
fast wow it would it had to be some type of\h\h

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technology that we didn't have in uh in 2005 I\h
can tell you that much how big do you think they\h\h

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were you know I would say at least 100 foot\h
across in order to be seen at that altitude\h\h

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like we saw them in it was it was something\h
that's hard to judge but because they were\h\h

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actually reflecting the sunlight that was still\h
over the horizon and their angle from us they were\h\h

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still very high and they appeared to be very large\h
so at least 100 feet across fascinating yeah they\h\h

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were huge their relative position in the formation\h
right like could you have fit another one of them\h\h

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in between like can you kind of give us a sense\h
of how spaced out the formation was it might not\h\h

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have been easy to tell with that a grazing angle\h
but hmm you know that that's rather hard to say\h\h

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um but I would say you would have been able to fit\h
one more maybe in between the middle of it very\h\h

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good man so you weren't really you know you've had\h
some experience maybe not even had experiences but\h\h

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you just kind of casually you know observe some\h
of the you know UFO talk back in the day and then\h\h

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this kind of really changed that for you it kind\h
of made you feel well maybe not kind of was it was\h\h

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a very strong feeling is what I'm picking up what\h
about the other crewmates you said you said you\h\h

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still talk to them do you do they feel the same\h
way as you oh yeah they they do but again there's\h\h

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such a stigma around it or and the the uh I guess\h
the aura of ridicule that even to this day and\h\h

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time people don't want to come out in the open and\h
talk about it and that's one reason that I'm doing\h\h

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this is because I want to take it out of the real\h
I want to take it out of the Paranormal type of of\h\h

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uh I guess you could say the the aura around\h
it yeah and put it into the reality of today\h\h

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because I want to look at it from the scientific\h
standpoint the technological standpoint and the\h\h

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aviation safety standpoint that's absolutely\h
absolutely I agree with you 100 on that it's\h\h

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it's frustrating to think that you had such like\h
a powerful experience all of you together and you\h\h

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have this strange sense of Shame almost around\h
it you don't want to talk about I mean that's\h\h

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I imagine that must be very conflicting it is and\h
you know when you're talking to somebody and you\h\h

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start talking about uaps or UFOs and they just\h
kind of you know smirk at you and like yeah right\h\h

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um it's it's moved out of that realm now to\h
where you're talking about people are actually\h\h

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interested in it um we have a lot of our Pilots\h
where I currently work that have come forward\h\h

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to me and say hey you know I've seen stuff out\h
there that I can't explain wow but I don't have\h\h

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an Avenue really to express what I've seen without\h
repercussions from the airline because let's face\h\h

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it the airlines don't want to have uh people out\h
there saying oh my Pilots are out there seeing\h\h

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UFOs or uaps um because well let's take it as\h
an example back in this was back in 1986 but\h\h

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at Japan Airlines there was a pilot his name was\h
uh kenju tarahuchi and he was flying a 747 from\h\h

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Paris France yes and there were over Anchorage\h
and they actually encountered three UFOs one\h\h

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very large one and two smaller ones and it was\h
actually uh picked up on radar the military also\h\h

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was able to look at it they scrabbled aircraft\h
the US military the U.S military and it was one\h\h

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of the best documented UFO incidents in the\h
commercial aviation history up to that point\h\h

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that was in 1986. we'll have to look into that\h
it was it was really something that was really\h\h

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interesting because all of a sudden all the tapes\h
everything disappeared from the radar the radar\h\h

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everything gone voice two voice two but the radar\h
uh controller kept a copy so it is on record by\h\h

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the way huh and it's it's very interesting but\h
the poor captain that was associated with this\h\h

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um they gave him a ground job they took him and\h
and they stopped them from flying they stopped\h\h

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him from flying why I guess they figured that\h
he was mentally unfit oh man because you know\h\h

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and that's the thing about it and it's still kind\h
of today today has this uh aura or stigma around\h\h

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it uh unfortunately and being able to take\h
it from this this Paranormal State and put\h\h

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it into the state of reality is something that we\h
need to do it's something that we really need to\h\h

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look at and and pursue uh from the standpoint\h
we need this information for the scientific\h\h

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advance and it's data right like that's all data\h
that we we could be using to to learn about this\h\h

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phenomenon I'll tell you what the fact that\h
they went and launched intercept aircraft\h\h

167
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um and had all the radar I mean that that's all a\h
very well documented process that will go on to so\h\h

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to think that they grounded him for um mental\h
being mentally unfit honestly it sounds more\h\h

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like a retribution than really anything else it's\h
pure retribution well the Japanese had a way of\h\h

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keeping your mouth shut about things and then they\h
would do what we call called the shuffle if they\h\h

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if you knew something about one thing that you\h
shouldn't know they would Shuffle you to another\h\h

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area where you couldn't say anything about it and\h
that's basically what they did with him man that\h\h

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that's tough you work he you know I'm sure\h
he worked for a very long time to get into\h\h

174
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that position the 747 is a big aircraft that's not\h
something you just kind of walk into off the line\h\h

175
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um that's a shame yeah yeah now what\h
about yourself I mean you're still uh\h\h

176
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an active captain do you have any fear that\h
there'll be retribution against yourself uh\h\h

177
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actually yes I've already had uh calls from\h
upper management uh basically telling me not in\h\h

178
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the the words but telling me to basically cease\h
and desist and but they do not mention the airline\h\h

179
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yeah you can do whatever you want on a private\h
standpoint but do not mention the airline under\h\h

180
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any circumstances there's still one you know and\h
it's really funny because they're not afraid to\h\h

181
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come forward like if I was talking about just\h
satellites or something they'd be oh yeah that's\h\h

182
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fine but because it has the word unidentified\h
in there uh all of a sudden it's just like oh\h\h

183
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no don't talk about it do you think it's pure\h
skepticism or stigma or do you think there's\h\h

184
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something more to it I think there's something\h
more to it hmm I think that the airline looks at\h\h

185
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it like oh well we don't want people thinking that\h
our Pilots are out there flying around and seeing\h\h

186
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UFOs even though that I would say you know 40 of\h
us or more have actually seen uh uaps out there\h\h

187
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um they don't want to broadcast that and I can\h
understand that so do you think on on average\h\h

188
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perhaps like these Airline the management\h
understands that this is is real it's just\h\h

189
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they don't want to deal with it exactly they have\h
other problems to deal with well you would think\h\h

190
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that Aviation safety would be pretty high on\h
their list of concerns well let me put it this\h\h

191
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way it is but nothing has happened yet and until\h
something would were to happen uh instead of being\h\h

192
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proactive about it they're reactive when it comes\h
to something like this so do you think the airline\h\h

193
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you know the those organizations cells would\h
should be part of the conversation or should the\h\h

194
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pilots have some type of reporting mechanism that\h
would be associated with some type of centralized\h\h

195
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reporting mechanism perhaps that aviators Trust\h
I think that would be the best best thing to have\h\h

196
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something where we could report almost anonymously\h
or if not completely anonymously um to where we\h\h

197
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could feel free to report what we need to without\h
having any retribution or ridicule from the\h\h

198
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airline or do I mean we're seeing that uh going\h
um through the process right now for military\h\h

199
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um aviators defense contractors it\h
doesn't sound like the commercial Aviation\h\h

200
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um the pilots themselves they have any outlet\h
they have no protection essentially they have\h\h

201
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no ability to even report this safety issue to\h
their chain of command through their business\h\h

202
00:20:37,140 --> 00:20:42,060
without fear of Retribution well you have\h
different organizations including the FAA and\h\h

203
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our cap NASA they do have reporting systems but\h
they're inadequate and unfortunately they don't\h\h

204
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allow you to actually get a response from them or\h
there there is no response even though you put in\h\h

205
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something it just falls on deaf ears goes into\h
the the file it's just the way to replicate you\h\h

206
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essentially you don't expect anything that\h
actually basically okay so there's no one\h\h

207
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actually doing anything with that data it's you\h
know theoretically we wouldn't be able to share\h\h

208
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it it would likely be anonymized so perhaps that\h
would be a data source if we were able to get a\h\h

209
00:21:15,060 --> 00:21:20,220
centralized reporting location that Pilots so long\h
as it was a standardized reporting mechanism that\h\h

210
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we could actually gather useful data from that's\h
correct is it more to poke around on that story\h\h

211
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you know the the only other thing that I can think\h
to poke around on that story is the fact that\h\h

212
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there's all these um you know reports coming in\h
from commercial airline pilots now about about\h\h

213
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things that um are UFO or UAP Associated and\h
it's too bad that all this data from the past\h\h

214
00:21:50,820 --> 00:21:56,160
was wiped out because you know you've been\h
seeing uaps and UFOs you know people think\h\h

215
00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:01,860
it's a recent phenomena but it's not and you\h
know even throughout history they can see where\h\h

216
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it's it's been you know I mean even paintings\h
or whatever with uh UFOs or whatever in it so\h\h

217
00:22:08,460 --> 00:22:13,920
I think it's a shame that all this data that\h
could have been collected is is gone evaporating\h\h

218
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:19,680
that's a good point it is um my hope would be that\h
we could make up with that with some modern tools\h\h

219
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:27,780
perhaps um well speaking of of of modern tools so\h
I'd like to hear a little bit about some of the I\h\h

220
00:22:27,780 --> 00:22:32,220
mean so you've had this incredible experience\h
it's essentially changed where you sit within\h\h

221
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the universe at least I would imagine you know I\h
mean one that's like an Incredible Gift I would\h\h

222
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say to have even if you haven't been able to\h
really like celebrate it I think publicly it's\h\h

223
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yeah that's still I think a special gift but\h
I was a skeptic beforehand I know be quite\h\h

224
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honest with that I'd been flying uh 35 years up\h
to that point and I was always like oh I've never\h\h

225
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seen anything I can't at least explain somehow\h
someway what it is including you know the tether\h\h

226
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:03,120
coming off the space shuttle uh when they were\h
doing experiments to generate electricity I've\h\h

227
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watched space junk re-enter meteorites re-enter\h
satellites satellite launches upper atmosphere\h\h

228
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launches from aircraft I've seen about all of it\h
and you know being able to see that in 2005 if\h\h

229
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you want to say it really rock my world it did\h
really rock my world and it made me a Believer\h\h

230
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and you know people were like well you think it\h
was aliens I don't know and uh it could have been\h\h

231
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:33,300
Little Green Men or it could have been you know\h
interdimensional travel it could have been time\h\h

232
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travel and it could have been no I will say it\h
wasn't military because in 2005 we didn't have any\h\h

233
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technology like that and it had to have been some\h
type of anti-gravitational technology in order to\h\h

234
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accelerate that rapidly incredible did this change\h
really how you think about other things that are a\h\h

235
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little more subjective do you consider yourself\h
like a religious person or how does that change\h\h

236
00:23:57,420 --> 00:24:02,580
your life kind of maybe with other topics\h
that are hard to Grapple with well there's\h\h

237
00:24:02,580 --> 00:24:11,100
a difference between belief and religion okay um I\h
believe in a superior being of course and but I am\h\h

238
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not maintaining there's a certain religion and I\h
think there's a difficulty with some individuals\h\h

239
00:24:18,180 --> 00:24:22,560
um and their religious beliefs and UFOs or uaps\h\h

240
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:32,280
um I think that it has to be approached from\h
the standpoint of like the that when you look\h\h

241
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:40,140
into the Bible and you look at what the Bible says\h
it leaves a lot of holes for us to mend with our\h\h

242
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understanding and part of our understanding\h
is that the fact we we can't be alone in\h\h

243
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the universe and whether it's through portals or\h
some type of inner space interdimensional travel\h\h

244
00:24:54,420 --> 00:24:59,700
we are going to be visiting whether or not\h
if you want to say as a skeptic we have been\h\h

245
00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:06,660
in the past or not I don't know but we will be\h
visited um people look at the Earth as being a\h\h

246
00:25:06,660 --> 00:25:12,300
resource also maybe for Interstellar travel\h
uh the Water we have one of the few planets\h\h

247
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:19,740
with liquid liquid water on it so that may be a\h
resource that they're looking for as well and with\h\h

248
00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:30,900
all the Usos and and it seems like there's a lot\h
of it these days underwater yeah [Music] um that's\h\h

249
00:25:30,900 --> 00:25:34,680
kind of when you kind of start zooming out once\h
you kind of have accepted that kind of information\h\h

250
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:39,180
you've had experience like yourself or whether\h
you've done the homework to convince yourself that\h\h

251
00:25:39,780 --> 00:25:44,220
um you know something's going on it really\h
does provide a lot of food for the various\h\h

252
00:25:44,220 --> 00:25:49,860
paths that could be it's fascinating yeah and\h
there there are difficulties in relating it uh\h\h

253
00:25:49,860 --> 00:25:56,040
to religious beliefs but when you dive into\h
it a little deeper like a lot of people have\h\h

254
00:25:57,060 --> 00:26:02,160
um you'll find out that there there's actually\h
references uh like The Book of Enoch in the\h\h

255
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,540
Bible that was completely removed because\h
it had references to extraterrestrials in\h\h

256
00:26:06,540 --> 00:26:12,240
it I was going to ask if um if there are\h
any other kind of things that this is you\h\h

257
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,080
know after you had the experience you know are\h
there other things that you previously thought\h\h

258
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:22,080
were kind of baloney that you've either you know\h
reconsidered or otherwise changed your beliefs\h\h

259
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:28,020
um let me put it this way my mind's a lot\h
more open to a lot of things very good so\h\h

260
00:26:28,020 --> 00:26:36,660
um beforehand and being a pilot uh one thing that\h
you kind of are taught or learned early on is it's\h\h

261
00:26:36,660 --> 00:26:41,460
a very black and white world this is the way you\h
do it you have the rules the SOP is a standard\h\h

262
00:26:41,460 --> 00:26:47,880
operating procedures you adhere to this you don't\h
you don't deviate from it at all it's black and\h\h

263
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:58,320
white well unfortunately the world has a lot of\h
gray in it as well and uh we are dealing now in in\h\h

264
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:03,900
this day and age with a lot of gray everything\h
isn't as black and white as it used to be\h\h

265
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:15,420
yep I agree so let's fast forward you're flying\h
it's now present day you've been seeing objects\h\h

266
00:27:15,420 --> 00:27:22,920
over there continental United States over\h
off the western coast we've recently on the\h\h

267
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,840
show talked with other commercial pilots who\h
have seen some of these objects we've seen\h\h

268
00:27:28,980 --> 00:27:32,700
tens of Pilots I mean lots of\h
Pilots reaching out talking online\h\h

269
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:39,000
um personally reaching out to me explaining that\h
there are a lot of light in the sky performing in\h\h

270
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:44,400
ways that they're not familiar with and when I say\h
when they're not familiar with there's a lot of a\h\h

271
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,960
lot baked into that right and so we've just talked\h
about you basically looking at this guy since you\h\h

272
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:54,900
were 14. uh have you ever seen anything like this\h
before nothing like what we're currently seeing\h\h

273
00:27:55,440 --> 00:28:03,300
um I was able to see actually two experiences\h
recently or had two experiences uh one was on\h\h

274
00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:10,320
August 9th and the other was on the 15th just\h
this year just this year yeah in 2022. uh the\h\h

275
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:16,380
first one we were on our way to LAX and my fo who\h
had actually seen it before my co-pilot who had\h\h

276
00:28:16,380 --> 00:28:20,160
actually seen it before was telling me hey you\h
know I saw these lights they are down the right\h\h

277
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:25,680
hand corner of the Big Dipper and they were moving\h
in unusual ways and okay that's interesting and\h\h

278
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:31,320
then he goes oh there they are take a look and we\h
sat there and watched these things for about three\h\h

279
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,700
hours or more until the point we got we actually\h
got bored with it it was like ah they're still\h\h

280
00:28:35,700 --> 00:28:40,440
out there and all the other aircraft were talking\h
on a frequency about it as well and so there was\h\h

281
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:46,860
a lot of chatter on uh air-to-air frequency which\h
is 23.45 for us when we're out over the Pacific um\h\h

282
00:28:46,860 --> 00:28:51,600
a lot of chatter about it yeah are you guys seeing\h
what we're seeing yet yeah matter of factors right\h\h

283
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:57,120
up there in the lower right hand corner of the\h
Big Dipper so there was a lot of a lot of better\h\h

284
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:03,660
about it for sure anything on the radar no and uh\h
obviously people ask them yeah well did you see\h\h

285
00:29:03,660 --> 00:29:10,260
anything on radar well no these were very high in\h
the atmosphere and uh radar only paints up to like\h\h

286
00:29:10,260 --> 00:29:15,780
320 miles maximum in front of you and if it's a\h
smaller object it's not going to pick it up anyway\h\h

287
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:22,080
um and especially if it if it's not in the\h
atmosphere it's not going to pick it up and\h\h

288
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:28,140
there's no eight was there any ATC control are you\h
kind of in between no we're out over the middle of\h\h

289
00:29:28,140 --> 00:29:33,900
the Pacific the only thing we have is if is our\h
what they call cpdoc the pilot controller link\h\h

290
00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:39,420
and then uh that's via satellite and that's\h
we just type and talk to them and the other\h\h

291
00:29:39,420 --> 00:29:47,520
thing is HF radio which we use as a backup got it\h
okay so in what altitude were you at we're at 39\h\h

292
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,420
000 feet okay so you're pretty much up there there\h
might be a little bit of traffic above you but\h\h

293
00:29:51,420 --> 00:29:55,080
um not too much and they'd be pretty big and\h
pretty recognizable I would imagine at normal\h\h

294
00:29:55,080 --> 00:30:00,960
altitudes yeah um so would you would you estimate\h
that and so how what would you describe you're\h\h

295
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,460
just seeing lights then they were just like point\h
point lights basically there were lights that\h\h

296
00:30:05,460 --> 00:30:10,740
would come on and get very bright brighter than\h
any of the Stars really or any of the planets\h\h

297
00:30:10,740 --> 00:30:15,540
that are there like twice as bright like I would\h
say so it's kind of like somebody almost pointing\h\h

298
00:30:15,540 --> 00:30:21,720
a spotlight but the thing is they're so far away\h
um and people say well it was a reflection from\h\h

299
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:27,000
the Sun I've seen satellites that reflect the Sun\h
and usually when they're rotating is fairly fast\h\h

300
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,860
and you can still see the satellite afterwards\h
this was something that was very unique from the\h\h

301
00:30:31,860 --> 00:30:37,260
standpoint we would see it it would move it seemed\h
like there were several objects actually we'd see\h\h

302
00:30:37,260 --> 00:30:43,020
it in moving a linear type of fashion it'd get\h
very bright and it would kind of curve like it\h\h

303
00:30:43,020 --> 00:30:48,780
was curving up or curving down and then it would\h
disappear and it wasn't like a satellite that\h\h

304
00:30:48,780 --> 00:30:55,740
would dim gradually it would be off and that's\h
the difference because when I was no over the\h\h

305
00:30:55,740 --> 00:31:00,360
years observing satellites you could see them\h
as they're tracking across the sky even after\h\h

306
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:06,300
the sun wasn't blending on you could still see\h
him moving across the sky and I realized that\h\h

307
00:31:06,300 --> 00:31:10,440
there's four thousand you know startling\h
satellites up there but a satellite will\h\h

308
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:15,900
move in a linear fashion it won't curve and\h
it won't have the type of light that this had\h\h

309
00:31:16,860 --> 00:31:23,940
um this also was to the north of us down below the\h
right hand side of the Big Dipper now when you see\h\h

310
00:31:23,940 --> 00:31:29,700
satellites usually it's during sunrise or Sunset\h
it's reflecting the sunlight off the solar panel\h\h

311
00:31:30,420 --> 00:31:37,500
uh this was to the north so this was not during\h
sunrise or sunset this was something that if it\h\h

312
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:42,240
was reflecting the sun would have to be way out\h
in space in order to reflect the Sun that we could\h\h

313
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:47,640
see it hmm interesting so you you think that these\h
were objects that were producing their own light\h\h

314
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,080
and not reflecting sunlight that's\h
that's what your assessment is of\h\h

315
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,740
those that would be my best assessment on it\h
do you think it was like a repulsion system\h\h

316
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,740
um we had one guy he came out a traditional\h
propulsion system perhaps I should say well we\h\h

317
00:32:01,740 --> 00:32:08,700
had one guy said well I well I think they're high\h
altitude drones well first of all a high altitude\h\h

318
00:32:08,700 --> 00:32:17,460
drone would have to have some type of propulsion\h
system that would be still air breathing even if\h\h

319
00:32:17,460 --> 00:32:23,760
unless it's a spacecraft and in a spacecraft it\h
wouldn't have a propulsion system like that uh if\h\h

320
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:28,860
it was like you you're I think you're referring\h
to like an afterburner or something no some kind\h\h

321
00:32:28,860 --> 00:32:36,120
of Rocket you know no no no and and also they\h
wouldn't be doing the same thing for over three\h\h

322
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,440
hours so yeah the same area let's talk about that\h
so you would see you'd be flying you see the Big\h\h

323
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:46,020
Dipper and just to the right of the bottom\h
left star bottom right hand star bottom right\h\h

324
00:32:46,020 --> 00:32:50,880
hand side just to the right of that you're seeing\h
objects and it looks like it's going left to right

325
00:32:51,540 --> 00:33:00,060
that was what was also interesting about it it\h
would move right to left left to right up to down\h\h

326
00:33:00,060 --> 00:33:04,740
and they're coming from all over the place right\h
and it was just in a specific area and it wasn't\h\h

327
00:33:04,740 --> 00:33:12,900
like it was um you know I mean any Rhyme or Reason\h
to it that's the other thing about satellite see\h\h

328
00:33:12,900 --> 00:33:22,560
have a Cadence one two three light one two three\h
dim and these didn't have any Cadence to them it\h\h

329
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,940
would come on whenever they wanted to kind of\h
and then go away whenever they wanted to it\h\h

330
00:33:26,940 --> 00:33:33,120
was really bizarre incredible so straight line\h
random directions and then a j-hook essentially\h\h

331
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,980
you would start doing a hook and then go out and\h
then it would instantly Fade Out at that point and\h\h

332
00:33:37,980 --> 00:33:42,060
when it started this it was essentially getting\h
brighter in some sense I think you talked about\h\h

333
00:33:42,060 --> 00:33:47,460
it getting in brighter is that correct yeah was it\h
only brighter in a certain direction or was there\h\h

334
00:33:47,460 --> 00:33:53,760
any consistency to no variation a lot of times\h
the object would appear stationary it would come\h\h

335
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:59,880
on bright and then you would see it move really\h
yeah so it was very unusual compared to what we\h\h

336
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:04,980
would usually see and and that's the one thing\h
that really got most of the people that I've\h\h

337
00:34:04,980 --> 00:34:10,620
talked to that have seen these things most of our\h
Pilots uh say that that's what gets them about it\h\h

338
00:34:10,620 --> 00:34:16,740
it's not the usual type of anomaly that we would\h
see and you'd be able to explain away as being a\h\h

339
00:34:16,740 --> 00:34:21,900
satellite a missile or whatever it may be you\h
know high altitude drawings no it doesn't have\h\h

340
00:34:21,900 --> 00:34:27,900
any type of characteristic that would belong\h
to any of those what do you think it is then\h\h

341
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:35,280
I have no idea it's a UAP yeah um I wish I\h
knew because uh you know I could answer a\h\h

342
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:41,580
lot of people's questions about it but uh it\h
uh definitely is unusual and it definitely I\h\h

343
00:34:41,580 --> 00:34:47,580
this is what really intrigues me is a scientific\h
uh aspect of it and a technological aspect of it\h\h

344
00:34:48,900 --> 00:34:57,240
what is it and why is it here or where'd it\h
come from if you're moving on to the deeper\h\h

345
00:34:57,240 --> 00:35:01,440
questions now I think do you think your\h
earlier experience kind of helped you you\h\h

346
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:09,960
know move past the real not real a little bit\h
faster um yes in the way of uh believing uh\h\h

347
00:35:10,860 --> 00:35:19,140
yes you know whether or not it's interdimensional\h
whether it's extraterrestrial whether it's time\h\h

348
00:35:19,140 --> 00:35:25,200
travel I don't know but I can tell you one\h
thing uh especially what we saw in 2005 is\h\h

349
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:33,960
nothing that we have which that opens up your mind\h
and unfortunately you know that right after that\h\h

350
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,940
happened we didn't talk to many people about it\h
because every time we did we'd just get a smirk\h\h

351
00:35:38,940 --> 00:35:47,040
uh somebody and it's just like okay you know there\h
was a show on TV uh you know I know what I saw and\h\h

352
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:52,020
that's basically there were three of us there and\h
another aircraft we know what we saw yeah and it\h\h

353
00:35:52,020 --> 00:35:57,720
was something that wasn't a massive hallucination\h
it wasn't satellites it wasn't anything that could\h\h

354
00:35:57,720 --> 00:36:03,240
be a tribute attributed to anything that\h
we had technologically at that time and\h\h

355
00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:10,080
people say oh well we could be back engineering\h
things that we got back in 1947 during Roswell\h\h

356
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:16,440
well it still sounds like a pretty fascinating\h
story to me yeah yeah um and that's that's\h\h

357
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:22,140
possible and that's the interesting thing about\h
this the realm of possibilities on this and\h\h

358
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:29,100
being able to open your mind to any of these and\h
and I like myself not leaning toward any one of\h\h

359
00:36:29,100 --> 00:36:35,220
them because I like looking at each one and and\h
the technical and scientific possibilities of each\h\h

360
00:36:35,220 --> 00:36:41,640
different thing it may be yeah yeah do you think\h
we've been held back in some sense by our own oh\h\h

361
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:47,700
absolutely skepticism really yeah I think we've\h
been held back by the government up to this point\h\h

362
00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:53,640
um the cat's out of the bag now so they're\h
they're kind of like oh yeah well these things\h\h

363
00:36:53,640 --> 00:37:01,560
exist as you well know that kind of happened\h
to you right um but up to this point they've\h\h

364
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:06,300
been very tight-lipped about it because if you\h
think about it you know this could be something\h\h

365
00:37:06,300 --> 00:37:11,580
that is one of the most important things to\h
happen in humanity if it is extraterrestrial\h\h

366
00:37:11,580 --> 00:37:16,860
and we're making contact it would be the absolute\h
most important thing that happened in humanity\h\h

367
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:22,680
so so we should better look into it yeah I\h
think so that's a good idea you know ignore\h\h

368
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,760
it yeah that's a good idea and that's one of the\h
reasons that that I'm coming forward with it too\h\h

369
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:31,560
besides the aviation safety standpoint of it you\h
know are they under intelligent control are they\h\h

370
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:36,720
going to be a hazard to us or are they something\h
that we should be concerned about it's something\h\h

371
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:42,540
that's going to drop from the sky and like you\h
know off the coast here of of California the\h\h

372
00:37:42,540 --> 00:37:50,880
the Tic Tac videos you know where yeah are these\h
things gonna create a conflict with the aircraft\h\h

373
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:56,100
are they something that we should be concerned\h
about commercially there's obviously they don't\h\h

374
00:37:56,100 --> 00:38:01,260
show up on radar they do show up on IR but we\h
don't have IR and Commercial aircraft obviously\h\h

375
00:38:01,260 --> 00:38:04,920
think about what trouble that could cause even if\h
you just don't acknowledge it right if we know we\h\h

376
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:09,240
have objects in our airspace doing things I mean\h
what about the opportunity for miscommunication\h\h

377
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:13,080
with another Nation right we think it's them\h
versus something else because we're pretending\h\h

378
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:19,140
that there isn't a third party absolutely\h
absolutely I don't think that this is a a\h\h

379
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:25,440
problem or situation that the United States alone\h
can necessarily resolve I don't think you know any\h\h

380
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:30,360
one nation really has the moral authority to do\h
that it really has to be you know a global effort\h\h

381
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:36,180
looking into this to say that hey we've we've\h
looked at the options we we understand that this\h\h

382
00:38:36,180 --> 00:38:40,260
is us and we're looking to see what else is out\h
there yeah there's been a lot of sightings over\h\h

383
00:38:40,260 --> 00:38:47,220
China over Russia over the U.S uh in South America\h
they're fairly open about it so they published a\h\h

384
00:38:47,220 --> 00:38:53,940
lot of the UAP types of videos and uh I think\h
that as we get more open about it and people\h\h

385
00:38:53,940 --> 00:39:00,180
become more accepting on the idea that maybe we\h
aren't alone that maybe we do have some type of\h\h

386
00:39:00,180 --> 00:39:06,120
other entity out there I think that there's going\h
to be a lot more revealed slowly because I can't\h\h

387
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,200
do it all at once and that's obvious but slowly\h
I think they're going to reveal things and and\h\h

388
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,880
the door will open and people go oh okay that's\h
what it's all about what do you think is going to\h\h

389
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,740
happen to just Humanity I mean where do you think\h
we go with that information hopefully we get the\h\h

390
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:29,160
um information to use that's to our benefit um\h
and we can do things like you know perpetual\h\h

391
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:35,880
motion or perpetual energy we can solve a lot of\h
our problems and maybe we can even learn from them\h\h

392
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:41,400
how not to have conflicts with each other as\h
well and probably the most valuable thing we\h\h

393
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:46,200
could learn right you know uh Ronald Reagan\h
said you know what would happen if basically\h\h

394
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:55,320
there was another uh entity out there that we all\h
band together as a world against or or actually\h\h

395
00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:02,640
as a people come together and see that we\h
are really one people against something else\h\h

396
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:09,780
um and this is the other thing that that people\h
have been saying well maybe this is some U.S\h\h

397
00:40:09,780 --> 00:40:16,560
government ploy to make everybody think that\h
there is some type of force out there that we\h\h

398
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,700
all have to be worried about well believe me\h
these things have been coming for thousands of\h\h

399
00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:24,960
years they haven't done anything yet so why would\h
they do something now I understand that they're\h\h

400
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,680
probably interested in our nuclear technology\h
because it seems like they're showing up around\h\h

401
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:35,040
nuclear aircraft carrier groups and around nuclear\h
sites and whatever uh so I I know they're probably\h\h

402
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:40,860
interested in that seems like a prudent measure\h
yeah you don't think they're they're hostile\h\h

403
00:40:40,860 --> 00:40:47,220
or a threat necessarily outside of um you know\h
normal Aviation concerns and knowing your airspace\h\h

404
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,920
personally I don't because they've had a lot\h
of time to do something at this point in time\h\h

405
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:59,520
if uh if you want to stop a Dam from breaking you\h
take care of it real early on you don't wait until\h\h

406
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:04,080
there's a huge crack down the center and right now\h
we have a huge crack down the center of this thing\h\h

407
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:14,520
and the the people uh in in the world basically\h
are so I I don't want to say in tune Now with\h\h

408
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:22,200
uh the possibility UFOs but they're much more uh\h
educated on it and I think that the door is slowly\h\h

409
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:26,580
opening and thousands of years ago people wouldn't\h
understand it and they would think they're Gods\h\h

410
00:41:26,580 --> 00:41:31,980
and and whatever I think now the crack has opened\h
up enough that people might start understanding it\h\h

411
00:41:31,980 --> 00:41:38,520
and hopefully hopefully they wouldn't uh think\h
of them as being something that's malevolent\h\h

412
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:45,780
so you were seeing these you guys were\h
seeing these J hook patterns out there which\h\h

413
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:52,680
um so that's kind of like half of a half of a\h
racetrack pattern which I've described before\h\h

414
00:41:52,680 --> 00:42:00,900
as what we've been seeing on the East Coast um\h
we had Mark Halsey Captain Mark Halsey uh on here\h\h

415
00:42:00,900 --> 00:42:06,960
recently and he was describing racetrack patterns\h
as well over the continental United States\h\h

416
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:13,140
um and a j is essentially a half of a half\h
of half of one of those so do you think\h\h

417
00:42:13,140 --> 00:42:17,340
maybe this is the same type of pattern you're\h
perhaps seeing it either from a different angle\h\h

418
00:42:17,340 --> 00:42:23,040
or something actually the description sounds\h
almost identical to what we've been seeing and\h\h

419
00:42:23,700 --> 00:42:31,860
that to me is interesting so why the J why not a\h
full race track and why does it start to to make\h\h

420
00:42:31,860 --> 00:42:38,280
the turn and then the light go out so that's\h
kind of something that that doesn't make a lot\h\h

421
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:43,080
of sense to me and the fact that they're not\h
coming from any specific Direction they come\h\h

422
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:48,600
from all kinds of directions but they all have the\h
same Tendencies or characteristics to where they\h\h

423
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:54,240
as they light up to get bright and they move and\h
then they start to make the hook and then they\h\h

424
00:42:54,240 --> 00:43:02,340
disappear so I have no clue to tell you the truth\h
yeah so would you would you define it as like a\h\h

425
00:43:02,340 --> 00:43:06,660
j-hope pattern I mean that's what that's what it\h
looks like right essentially A J hook which you\h\h

426
00:43:06,660 --> 00:43:12,420
know is half of a yeah you know racetrack pattern\h
so you could call it that that's very interesting\h\h

427
00:43:12,420 --> 00:43:16,980
that it came off do you think it could be any type\h
of media or maybe coming like kind of towards your\h\h

428
00:43:16,980 --> 00:43:22,260
line of vision no I've even seen that to where\h
it Spooks me coming at the airplane like I hope\h\h

429
00:43:22,260 --> 00:43:29,100
that goes over the top of us um but no nothing\h
like that and again a meteor is going to move in\h\h

430
00:43:29,100 --> 00:43:33,900
a linear type of fashion not that it's going to\h
be propelled from side to side so it's not going\h\h

431
00:43:33,900 --> 00:43:40,800
to move in a different direction other than just\h
literal so we have this unknown activity occurring\h\h

432
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:47,940
Pilots across the United States you know perhaps\h
further I haven't spoken to too many International\h\h

433
00:43:47,940 --> 00:43:51,660
Pilots but I've certainly heard it happening\h
over you know the Atlantic and the Pacific\h\h

434
00:43:52,980 --> 00:43:59,880
um doesn't this seem like something that\h
as a a you know a lifelong Aviator as\h\h

435
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:06,120
the captain of this vessel with you know\h
200 souls or however many Souls on board\h\h

436
00:44:06,900 --> 00:44:11,460
you know as a fighter pilot I knew that you know\h
we had to be very considerate about where we're\h\h

437
00:44:11,460 --> 00:44:15,540
putting our bombs and stuff but as a commercial\h
airliner you've got all those Souls on board and\h\h

438
00:44:15,540 --> 00:44:20,280
you guys go through a lot of work to make sure\h
that uh those customers are safe right right\h\h

439
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:26,280
that's our first and foremost priority is the\h
safety of the the aircraft crew and passengers not\h\h

440
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:33,780
necessarily in that order but uh the thing that\h
concerns me about this is since it is an unknown\h\h

441
00:44:35,340 --> 00:44:43,260
um how can that possibly be a a hazard to Aviation\h
safety could it be a hazard to Aviation safety\h\h

442
00:44:44,340 --> 00:44:50,100
um are we looking at something that in the future\h
is going to become different more aggressive\h\h

443
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:57,600
and how can we be prepared for that and that's\h
where I come in on this and as a pilot I'm kind\h\h

444
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:08,160
of stepping out on a limb uh to kind of introduce\h
this into the Norms of reality but I want to make\h\h

445
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:15,180
sure that there is some way in place that we can\h
get more information and that we can possibly\h\h

446
00:45:15,180 --> 00:45:24,300
prepare for some type of incident or some type\h
of of future interaction with these uh uaps to\h\h

447
00:45:24,300 --> 00:45:30,000
where we'll be able to I at least have some idea\h
what they're doing where they're going and what\h\h

448
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:36,360
type of of Maneuvers they'll be doing yeah that's\h
a great point so you know one of the efforts I've\h\h

449
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:43,080
been engaged in is with the American Institute\h
of Aeronautics and astronautics or the AIA and\h\h

450
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,860
they've they've asked me to help them stand\h
up a permanent committee with which to look\h\h

451
00:45:46,860 --> 00:45:52,440
at unidentified Aerospace phenomenon one of the\h
activities that we have going on is to do just\h\h

452
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:59,040
that is to to bring in Pilots uh bring in subject\h
matter experts and to start ideating on some of\h\h

453
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:04,080
the policies and procedures around how we can\h
report this and integrate it into our Aviation\h\h

454
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:10,440
safety Frameworks both on until military Aviation\h
and Commercial Aviation general aviation but\h\h

455
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,280
business class Aviation we really need to make\h
sure that all those procedures are centralized\h\h

456
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:19,380
and they're consistent and it's all in one spot so\h
that we can actually do effective data analysis on\h\h

457
00:46:19,380 --> 00:46:25,260
it and so we're going to be recommending some of\h
those those reporting procedures and firing type\h\h

458
00:46:25,260 --> 00:46:30,780
policy changes to some of the organizations that\h
have the authority to actually Implement those\h\h

459
00:46:30,780 --> 00:46:37,200
changes such as the FAA NASA and other partners\h
that we're looking to work with so I do see that\h\h

460
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:42,120
there is a path forward to have that that kind\h
of critical conversation at the engineering and\h\h

461
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:48,540
scientific level and this podcast in a sense is\h
really a natural evolution of that because I can\h\h

462
00:46:48,540 --> 00:46:52,800
have pilots on like yourself and we can have\h
you know just a pilot to Pilot conversation\h\h

463
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:58,020
and kind of dig into the details in a way that\h
perhaps a non-pilot wouldn't know to ask those\h\h

464
00:46:58,020 --> 00:47:03,120
questions and really give you a platform that you\h
maybe haven't had in the past to talk about this\h\h

465
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,560
that's perfect and you were asking earlier about\h
whether or not we should bring the airlines into\h\h

466
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:12,060
the into the loop and if we do something like\h
that the airlines are going to have to be in\h\h

467
00:47:12,060 --> 00:47:18,120
the loop I think so yeah I think so um because if\h
you leave them out of the loop then what's going\h\h

468
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:23,460
to happen is guys will still feel like they're\h
they have the possibility of having retribution\h\h

469
00:47:23,460 --> 00:47:28,080
to reporting from the airlines but if you bring\h
the airline into the loop and they say yeah it's\h\h

470
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:34,080
okay to do that it's going to open The Floodgate\h
do you think the airline unions have any role play\h\h

471
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:42,120
not at this point really really um I don't see\h
other than protecting the pilots from it the\h\h

472
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:47,760
possibility of Retribution from an airline I don't\h
see where the air the the Unions would come into\h\h

473
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:55,920
play very much um Airlines usually have what they\h
call house rules about involving that airline in\h\h

474
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:59,940
interviews and that's specifically one of the\h
reasons that I haven't mentioned which airline\h\h

475
00:47:59,940 --> 00:48:07,560
I work for is the fact that I am abiding by their\h
their house rules in not doing so and if you bring\h\h

476
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:12,840
the airlines into the loop where you don't have\h
that type of uh situation where you don't fuel\h\h

477
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:19,620
like there'll be retribution to actually speaking\h
out you can actually attain a lot more information\h\h

478
00:48:19,620 --> 00:48:27,660
from Pilots now one thing I learned in aviation\h
management degree is the fact that your employees\h\h

479
00:48:27,660 --> 00:48:33,180
are your best sounding board for any issues you\h
may have with your airline talk to them first\h\h

480
00:48:33,180 --> 00:48:37,080
because they're going to know how to solve the\h
problems before some guy in the Head Shed is going\h\h

481
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:44,640
to and it's along the same lines with this talk\h
to the pilots but if the pilots can't come forward\h\h

482
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:51,480
with their information then you're basically you\h
know it's falling on on deaf ears and just wasting\h\h

483
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:57,060
that opportunity exactly yep makes a lot of sense\h
uh do you know any Pilots that you think will we\h\h

484
00:48:57,060 --> 00:49:01,260
could invite on to have this conversation or do\h
you think that it's kind of far and few between\h\h

485
00:49:02,220 --> 00:49:07,860
um on this topic you know I I know uh I've talked\h
to several of our Pilots so I know a few that that\h\h

486
00:49:07,860 --> 00:49:13,560
might want to come forward um that definitely\h
want to see the same things happening that I\h\h

487
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:20,700
see but on the other hand I don't think that uh a\h
lot of the guys are ready for it yet because they\h\h

488
00:49:20,700 --> 00:49:24,840
still feel like the airline's going to be on\h
their back about it certainly you know I think\h\h

489
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:29,040
ultimately you know this isn't necessarily like\h
the Pilot's responsibility at the end of the day\h\h

490
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:36,120
I feel like we're in this position where you know\h
uh just really Society itself wasn't really ready\h\h

491
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,960
to have this conversation and so we've just kind\h
of shouldered the load in the meantime in a sense\h\h

492
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:45,060
as far as reporting and you know the emotional\h
baggage of having your life change and not being\h\h

493
00:49:45,060 --> 00:49:51,240
able to talk about it yeah it's kind of like um\h
and like you said the emotional baggage that goes\h\h

494
00:49:51,240 --> 00:49:56,820
along with it if you feel like you have something\h
to contribute like some type of information\h\h

495
00:49:56,820 --> 00:50:02,640
but you can't put it out there because of the\h
restrictions you have from your employer that\h\h

496
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:08,940
is not only limiting the source of information\h
that can get out there and help mitigate any\h\h

497
00:50:08,940 --> 00:50:15,240
problems with safety but it's also it's it's\h
Ashley cutting Society short short on what's\h\h

498
00:50:15,240 --> 00:50:20,220
actually out there and what we're actually seeing\h
absolutely yeah doing a disservice absolutely\h\h

499
00:50:20,220 --> 00:50:24,900
maybe I don't know if you could put a number on it\h
but like as far as what's been going on recently\h\h

500
00:50:24,900 --> 00:50:29,400
and the pilots that you've been speaking to like\h
what percentage have been having haven't seen\h\h

501
00:50:30,540 --> 00:50:38,100
object I can't explain well realize that most of\h
the guys that know that I'm working with this uh\h\h

502
00:50:38,100 --> 00:50:42,960
are the ones that contact me so it's kind of\h
hard for me to gauge the exact number but I'm\h\h

503
00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:50,820
sure it's a lot yeah um I would say if I had to\h
come across and say how many people I've flown\h\h

504
00:50:50,820 --> 00:50:56,340
with that have said oh yeah I've seen something\h
um it would say about 40 40 to 50 percent of\h\h

505
00:50:56,340 --> 00:50:59,520
the people I've flown with half the people who've\h
flown with have probably seen some mechanics right\h\h

506
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:07,260
wow that's incredible yeah and it all started uh\h
you've been flying since you were 14. yeah with me\h\h

507
00:51:07,260 --> 00:51:12,120
it all started when I was young and I was flying\h
out to Catalina Island and I saw a meteorite\h\h

508
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:16,740
actually fly in front of me and fall in the water\h
and you can kind of still see it a little bit when\h\h

509
00:51:16,740 --> 00:51:23,820
and that was spooky to me because I was like okay\h
but I was able to explain it hopefully I I didn't\h\h

510
00:51:23,820 --> 00:51:28,920
make a misidentification but you know this thing\h
came down in in front of me when I just talked\h\h

511
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:33,840
to one of the guys that was with me the other day\h
and he's still a good friend of mine um and he he\h\h

512
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:38,880
brought that up to me God you remember that that\h
was one of the things I really remember in my life\h\h

513
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:45,240
really and uh the media came out and that's the\h
Catalina Island off the west coast of the US where\h\h

514
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:51,360
David fravor saw the Tic Tac correctly that that's\h
why I'm saying yeah hope I didn't misidentify it\h\h

515
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:56,820
at the time because this was you know back\h
in 1978 or something like that really yeah\h\h

516
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:03,540
um I joke around and say that I think Orville and\h
Wilbur Wright signed my my pilot certificate but\h\h

517
00:52:03,540 --> 00:52:10,860
but it was a long time ago and to see that type\h
of anomaly back then was really neat I thought\h\h

518
00:52:10,860 --> 00:52:16,140
gosh you know people don't get to see things like\h
this um anything else underwater that you've seen\h\h

519
00:52:16,140 --> 00:52:20,760
or heard about well I've heard about a lot of it\h
and especially off the coast here of California\h\h

520
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:26,520
out by Catalina so UAP our unidentified\h
Aerospace phenomenon and there's a term Uso

521
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:36,000
so basically something we can't identify under\h
the water that's correct and I think typically\h\h

522
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:40,080
you know when we talk about that it's because\h
they're moving at speeds that are very quick right\h\h

523
00:52:40,860 --> 00:52:44,580
um they're dipping around underwater in a way that\h
even like our missiles and our Torpedoes can't do\h\h

524
00:52:44,580 --> 00:52:49,560
just due to the water friction so somewhat easy\h
to recognize if you have the tools well the\h\h

525
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:56,280
interesting thing is that you know they call it I\h
think a multi uh Media or multimatter uh ability\h\h

526
00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:03,240
to uh Propel itself so like trans medium like\h
Cross Ranch medium yeah different uh yeah fluid\h\h

527
00:53:03,240 --> 00:53:10,500
densities right so if it can Propel itself in air\h
then kind of propel itself in water and normally a\h\h

528
00:53:10,500 --> 00:53:16,380
vessel is not made to do that so you know how is\h
it able to do that that's very interesting yeah\h\h

529
00:53:16,980 --> 00:53:23,640
um to me and no I haven't seen one of those I\h
would love to say I I have or I will but no I\h\h

530
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:31,140
haven't and uh it's to me it's very interesting\h
that the trans medium type of propulsion system\h\h

531
00:53:31,140 --> 00:53:37,440
yeah that could be enabled on these things or\h
just boggles my mind you're cool do you have\h\h

532
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:43,920
any questions for me about any of my experiences\h
yeah actually I do so when you were looking uh at\h\h

533
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:50,940
the through the IR correct sure um if you were\h
looking on on the floor did you see any heat\h\h

534
00:53:50,940 --> 00:53:56,280
signature other than the object itself any type of\h
propulsion system no there is no you know normally\h\h

535
00:53:56,280 --> 00:54:01,380
what we would see coming out of a back of an\h
object is a big Distortion I mean it's very clear\h\h

536
00:54:01,380 --> 00:54:05,400
you can actually see depending on how close you\h
are you can actually see the shock waves inside\h\h

537
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:10,620
the um the exhaust plume and if you count those\h
you can actually typically count the Mach number\h\h

538
00:54:10,620 --> 00:54:17,460
of the exhaust uh plumes kind of like a fun little\h
thing but very a lot of fidelity to it but when we\h\h

539
00:54:17,460 --> 00:54:24,060
were looking at these objects on our FLIR um no\h
it was you it was only really energy coming from\h\h

540
00:54:25,020 --> 00:54:29,100
a point source more or less now the\h
gimbal was a little bit different that was\h\h

541
00:54:29,100 --> 00:54:33,000
you know a larger object but typically what we\h
would see just appears like a point source of\h\h

542
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:39,240
ir energy interesting so if there's no propulsion\h
associated with what kind of speeds was it getting\h\h

543
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:45,120
so yeah you know they would be stationary but then\h
they would also accelerate and hang out at 0.6 or\h\h

544
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:50,040
0.8 Mock and they'd be doing that all the time if\h
a lot of times it's a little difficult if you look\h\h

545
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,700
at it just at a slice you go well that's clearly\h
a baboon because it's just floating there and then\h\h

546
00:54:53,700 --> 00:54:58,680
as you see it going at 0.8 Mach it's like well\h
okay now I'm a bit more confused and then it does\h\h

547
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:04,740
that for several hours it becomes more confusing\h
but no lifting surfaces um we weren't able to make\h\h

548
00:55:04,740 --> 00:55:11,580
out anything like that no no you know no rotors\h
no no uh exhaust plume coming out so really there\h\h

549
00:55:11,580 --> 00:55:15,900
was nothing to kind of indicate that there was\h
something holding it in air really that we could\h\h

550
00:55:15,900 --> 00:55:21,240
tell with our tools that we had so in some type\h
of anti-gravitational Technology you would think\h\h

551
00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:27,540
unknown frankly I mean it's just unknown one of\h
the things that we're doing at the the aiaa is\h\h

552
00:55:27,540 --> 00:55:33,780
working on building a sensing document that we'll\h
use to promulgate different learnings about what\h\h

553
00:55:33,780 --> 00:55:39,540
sensors are useful what are not what works what\h
doesn't where information is questions we have\h\h

554
00:55:39,540 --> 00:55:43,200
and we're going to look to promulgate that out\h
to the rest of the Aerospace industry so we can\h\h

555
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:49,800
start further refining our sensors and our and our\h
analysis specifically for this topic in a new way\h\h

556
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:56,760
right most of the videos that the US military has\h
come out with I I have not really seen any type\h\h

557
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:02,400
of propulsion system on the IR now you've seen\h
like the fuzzy image around it like it's some\h\h

558
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:09,300
type of gravitational field or something like that\h
but no type of propulsion system which to me is\h\h

559
00:56:09,300 --> 00:56:16,500
very interesting because uaps that we're seeing I\h
had some people say oh well they're Jets like you\h\h

560
00:56:16,500 --> 00:56:22,560
were talking about at high altitude or something\h
but the fact is why would the jet come on make a\h\h

561
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:27,420
turn and then go off why what how long did that\h
happen for three and a half hours yeah that's\h\h

562
00:56:27,420 --> 00:56:32,280
the other thing so they just had a stream of jets\h
you know yeah going every which direction yeah and\h\h

563
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:40,020
and that's the one thing that interests me the\h
most most is the propulsion systems of these um\h\h

564
00:56:40,620 --> 00:56:49,440
and what can we learn from it is it you know what\h
type of Technology could we possibly have where we\h\h

565
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:54,960
would be able to see these because obviously\h
like I said we don't have IR capabilities in\h\h

566
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:59,400
our aircraft well do we need to get something\h
like this to where we might be able to see them\h\h

567
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:07,260
um be used to just Gathering data on every flight\h
right exactly um how can we gather data for this\h\h

568
00:57:07,260 --> 00:57:16,980
how can we do it without uh being intrusive\h
on safety and and uh and uh with uh Airlines\h\h

569
00:57:16,980 --> 00:57:22,380
blessings or with the other the military's\h
blessings on this because the one big thing\h\h

570
00:57:22,380 --> 00:57:28,560
I think that we have to make sure that people\h
understand is that this does not this is personal\h\h

571
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:33,960
like you said pilot to Pilot this does not involve\h
any military disinformation this doesn't involve\h\h

572
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:39,780
someone saying oh you've got to say this or don't\h
say that it doesn't involve Men In Black uh what\h\h

573
00:57:39,780 --> 00:57:47,640
it does involve is Aviation safety and it involves\h
the the willingness of people to come forward and\h\h

574
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:51,900
make sure that we're safe when we're flying the\h
skies we're just doing this ourselves taking\h\h

575
00:57:51,900 --> 00:57:57,360
matters into our own hands absolutely someone\h
has to do it absolutely awesome Chris thank you\h\h

576
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:01,680
so much for coming again today this is thank\h
you and thank you for actually taking a stand\h\h

577
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:06,420
and having The Bravery to speak about this and\h
what thank you very much for allowing me to do it\h\h

578
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:11,460
um I just want to make sure that you know if you\h
have any concerns in the future whether whatever\h\h

579
00:58:11,460 --> 00:58:18,300
that you give me a call because I I'll you know\h
I'm going to continue to take this stance and I've\h\h

580
00:58:18,300 --> 00:58:24,780
been tear in there you're you're on board you want\h
to see see this to the end huh awesome you know\h\h

581
00:58:24,780 --> 00:58:30,240
it's kind of like Aviation like a disease once it\h
gets in your bloodstream it doesn't get out and\h\h

582
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:37,200
the more I get involved with it more interested\h
I get and the more I want to you know she it's a\h\h

583
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:48,840
it's a an anomaly and it's a oh how would you say\h
it um pretty much it's something that I've gained\h\h

584
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:53,820
interest in I want to gain the knowledge I want\h
to get the scientific answers to what's going\h\h

585
00:58:53,820 --> 00:59:00,120
on because I've always loved science I've just\h
been that type of person and I just am curious\h\h

586
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:08,460
about what the heck it is and uh it it just to\h
me I'm excited about it I'm excited to be able\h\h

587
00:59:08,460 --> 00:59:15,240
to uh be part of it and I'm excited to be able to\h
spread the information I have and hopefully make\h\h

588
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:19,380
someone else excited about it awesome man that's\h
incredible and I agree with you I think the more\h\h

589
00:59:19,380 --> 00:59:23,220
people that look at this and talk about it and\h
actually consider it getting over that laughter\h\h

590
00:59:23,220 --> 00:59:28,380
barrier I think the more people are gonna do\h
exactly what you just did and just realize how\h\h